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Princess 2 - 14/12 Lotus ON

Where the lost, lonely and mentally ill can now be found chatting about MISERABLE motor vehicles. No O/T posts.

Princess 2 - 14/12 Lotus ON

Postby Vulgalour » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:01 pm

I see people I recognise over here, I've been dipping my toe in the waters now and then, and I see people I don't recognise too. You know me, but by another forum name. To stay true to the mode d'emploi I thought I would introduce myself and my daily with a test drive report.

The Austin Princess, it could have been BL's finest hour. I'm going to cut the long story short and focus on what this is like to live with, even though I've only lived with her for a short period of time. It could make for interesting reading.

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I bought this one for £450 when I knocked on the door of the chap that owned it on the off chance it would be available. I had the vague notion I wanted to buy one at some point, and as my brother appears to have the luck of the Irish when it comes to finding cars for people, I should have been prepared for a Princess to appear on my doorstep at a very low price in a colour I didn't mind so much. We'd gone to view the car and hear it running and the previous owner, Bill, had spent a fair bit of cash chasing an engine problem. New alternator, new fuel pump, new timing belt... but it wasn't running as healthily as it ought and had a blowing exhaust. There were also some issues with the bodywork that needed remedying and the lack of a clean didn't really help Bill's chances of getting mega-bucks. I'd set a price in my head for it and we came in at an insultingly low scrap price, eventually settling on the aforementioned purchase price. Bill seemed happy enough (though I suspect family were forcing his hand to sell it quick) and I was happy enough because really, I didn't know what exactly I was letting myself in for.

The day we collected the car was dark, it had recently been snowing a lot, one of the headlights didn't work, the reversing lights only worked when they felt like it, the windows were all filthy, the dash lights wouldn't come on, the driver's door window wouldn't wind down and we couldn't read the speedo properly. I couldn't drive the car back as although we'd put insurance on it was only temporary classic and I didn't realise combined with my insurance I was allowed to drive the car.
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It was an interesting drive back, Dad relaying what the car was doing. He said it felt like it understeered too much, the gearbox was a nightmare, the headlights were atrocious, the visibility poor at best and the mirrors might as well not be there. On a long uphill the engine very nearly decided not to work anymore and we found ourselves in first and struggling until finally we got home. Some ringing around and checking of policies and we found out I could drive the car. Cleaned the glass bits so I could see and off we went. The only accurate description I've been able to give of the car is 'organic' because it doesn't behave like you'd expect a car to, it behaves far more like a horse... which only makes sense if you actually drive one of these things.
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The turning circle is monumental, doing a turn-in-the-road is an event rather than a manoeuvre. At parking speeds, the steering is ridiculously heavy, if it were an HLS it probably wouldn't be as they came with PAS from the factory but the HL and L models had to do without it. When you finally do complete the proceedure of getting yourself turned around you then have to remember it's a slow clutch rise in first or you'll stall and gentle acceleration or you'll kangaroo, both of which I managed on my first outing. First impression should have been enough to make me take the car back, in all honesty. It didn't feel normal, or predictable, but at the same time it didn't feel shoddy or unsafe.

After a lot of cleaning, the car got pressed into more regular use. The dashboard is not ergonomically designed at all, nor does it seem to be designed with pleasing aesthetics in mind. The illumination of the dials at night, whatever setting you put them to, is poor. During the day, if the sun is in the sky, then you won't be able to see the top half of any of your dials and will only just be able to make out the line of the speedo needle through the glare. If you're on the motorway and that needle is more to the right than vertical, you're probably speeding, that's about as specific as it gets.
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It might be because someone has fitted an Ambassador wheel to mine, but I find the dials and warning lights are often obscured by the steering wheel, which is less than helpful.
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The switches are impossible to find and don't light up, the heater and fan controls might as well be outside the car and the radio is impossible to find at night and not that easy to find by the light of day. The dash controls are a bit of a fumble-fest.
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Eventually, you do find where everything is and it does become easier, but never seems to be easy. The best bet is to set all the switches before you set off and then just leave them alone and hope you've got it right... which you usually haven't. The stalks are much better and easy to reach and decypher, with the push-for-permanent-main and pull-for-quick-flash being pleasantly intuitive. The stalks do feel a bit like they might snap off if any amount of force is used, so one is encouraged to use a gentle touch.

Happily, the seats are fantastically comfortable, it's like sitting in your gran's living room. They're supportive without being too huggy and soft without being too French (anyone who has been in a 1970/1980s Peugeot will know what I mean by that). The armrest on the front door is in an excellent position for resting your arm when sat in traffic.
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The rear seats are sprung and comically bouncy if the view in my rear view mirror and the worried laughter of my back seat passengers is anything to go by. Probably quite nice to sleep on if you're short like me, they feel very mattressy. When you finally get the exhaust to stop blowing, cabin noise is almost non-existant, with the only real wind noise coming from the tip of the gutters... that is, unless your factory exhaust clamps to the downpipe are blowing like a good un in which case it's very noisy inside, but nowhere near as noisy as outside.
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Other important factors to the car are visibility as previously mentioned. The factory door mirrors are terrible, not only are they too small for the car, they can't be adjusted to where you want them to be, merely somewhere near. Reliable rear visibility ends somewhere around the quarterlight bar on the back doors and the rear window is akin to peeking through a letterbox. There is no indication of where the very front or the very rear of the car is, that's all guess work. To the front, visibility is actually pretty good, the windscreen is a decent height and the A pillars are not only slim enough not to intrude, they're also placed so as not to be a blindspot at road ends or get in the way of traffic lights when sat in traffic.

Brakes are good, excellent perhaps for the age, but they do have the peculiar characteristic of stopping the car before it stops. That wonderful, supremely comfortable and remarkably competent suspension system smooths out the bumps nicely but doesn't compromise feedback through the wheel and pedals to the driver, but it also means there's a fair amount of body roll and pitch, especially when stopping and setting off. Additionally, avoid taking evasive action when pigeons fly at you, the resultant sensation of your front wheels dancing to separate tunes is not only alarming when you first experience it, but also entirely normal.

At speed the Princess pulls leisurely in lower gears and continues to pull like a train when you really get shifting. In the corners the car is remarkably stable and while there is some roll, it's much more dramatic inside the car than outside. Grip seems never ending, but it will understeer if you push really hard, however, I'm yet to hear a squeal from the tyres (when I first wrote that statement it was true, I have since managed to get a squeal at 30mph on a 90 degree corner, but only a little one). Because of the wide track the car is extraordinarily stable and easy to drive when on the open road, but the width, poor visibility, turning circle and gearbox make it a bit of a chore around town.

Speaking of chores, that moves me nicely on to the gearbox. The gears are spaced wide, as though they might be warring nations, and gear selection is sedate. First can only be selected when you're barely moving and should be got out of as soon as possible as second is better for most all duties around town. Fourth (the highest gear) is perfectly adequate at motorway speeds and above, with no sensation of needing a fifth gear. The main gear selector rod on mine has play in it, which means it does have a particular nature about it, but other than that gear selection is okay if a little clunky and a bit of a stretch for anyone with short arms.

All in all, it's not an easy car to live with day to day, especially if your day involves driving to the shop and back, but if you want a long distance chugger this is the car for you, especially if you want to go many miles in supreme comfort. Always indicate well in advance and do everything at a sedate pace and the Princess will treat you well, rush anything and you'll likely find her getting clumsy and knocking into bikers, other cars, invisible bollards and small buildings because you just won't see them in time.

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If there's anything more you'd like to know about the Princess experience, leave a comment and I'll see if I can get you an answer from my meagre experience thus far.
Last edited by Vulgalour on Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:21 pm, edited 73 times in total.
Vulgalour
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Re: Austin Princess 2 - Test Drive

Postby Barrett » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:20 pm

Nice to see you 'over here'. Forum is a little slow... don't let that put you off. Most of the action* is in the chat thing, loads of fascinating* discussions take place over there every day...

Anyway, I do like this car, and I like the methodical approach you have of tackling various small-but-annoying jobs to bring it slowly up to your standard. It seems much more manageable then the typical OMG TOTAL RESTO threads one reads, which for a mechanical dunce like myself is quite encouraging. I expect I'll be spending lots more time cleaning small pieces of my car than actually fixing it (if it ever arrives)
Hoow do I go to my thread ? How do I find my forum ? Howdo I go to the page I am typing?
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Re: Austin Princess 2 - Test Drive

Postby Vulgalour » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:41 pm

I'm very excited about your Bond, more so than I ought to be since it's not coming to my house for me to play with.

The key, it seems, to running an old car daily is to work through all the niggles as you find them. If I had more money to throw at the car there'd be a lot less to actually do on it, I'm actually struggling to find things that are wrong (touch wood) as it's actually a really sound car overall. Recently completed a happy jaunt down the motorway and A38 without a hitch, I think I'm burning a tiny bit of oil and the engine is very much in need of a dose of Redex as it's a bit coked up still but otherwise she's running well.

I think I'll keep updates here to just the running side of things, really to demonstrate how much/little a car like this needs to be used every day. With a bit of luck, I won't make many posts ;)

Edited to add: Wait, why does it say FURRY under my username?
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Re: Austin Princess 2 - Test Drive

Postby Vulgalour » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:51 pm

I noticed on a recent trek down the motorway to Alfreton that at 65mph+ I was getting a rhythmic thrummthrumm from the back corner and a faint sensation of it through the pedals. The only time I've come across this before was a tired wheel bearing. Jacked the Princess up today to have a wiggle of the rear wheels and there's absolutely no play in them so I think it's actually just the tyres being noisy, what with them being not-posh tyres.

Panicking a bit about the MoT, but I can't find anything that will fail definitely. Tyres are good, there's no detrimental rust in the prescribed areas, engine is running nice and lean and my rear light cluster is working again. There's no knocks or rattles and the most obvious fault is the driver's window being difficult to wind down and the oil leak that I'll get fixed (hopefully) before the test itself.

That said, I'm still not expecting to sail through the MoT advisory free, it's a 32 year old British Leyland product, something is bound to be wrong somewhere, right?
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Re: Austin Morris Princess 2 - Living the Beige Life

Postby Richard » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:11 pm

A failed wheel bearing won't necessarily have play. Jack the car up again and see if you can feel any roughness as you turn the wheel by hand. Check all four corners, noises can transmit around the car.
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Re: Austin Morris Princess 2 - Living the Beige Life

Postby tone_depear » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:28 pm

It's couldn't just be a tyre out of balance could it?

Edit: Wilkommen!
http://mingebagcitroens.blogspot.co.uk/ - my shit cars, 1998-present.

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Re: Austin Morris Princess 2 - Living the Beige Life

Postby Vulgalour » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:27 pm

After having used the car for the 30 mile round trip to temporary work, I have a few niggles to report, but not many.

1 - My blower stopped blowing, and would sometimes just blow intermittently. Turns out the fuse had come loose so I've reseated it and now the blower blows again.
2 - My rear lights are sometimes disco, sometimes not. I have a replacement I'll be able to buy on Monday that should resolve this issue permanently.
3 - Wheel noise. After doing the motorway run a couple of times now, I think it's actually road noise and my paranoia because the M1 between 29a and 28 has a variety of different surfaces and none of my tyres match. I'll be checking the bearing again Friday night or Saturday daytime, depending how knackered I am after work.

This weekend I plan to get the rocker cover off and resealed, same with the fuel pump. I'm also going to try and book the car in to get the wheels balanced as I think one is still not balanced properly. I'm hoping to get some help sorting out the steering rack gaiter that needs replacing so I can get my tracking done too as that may be off, hopefully that will mean I get my steering wheel straightened at the same time. Oh, and a decoke with Redex is on the cards too as I know it's fairly coked up but with the Polo out of action I can't take the Princess off the road for an engine strip to properly clean it all out.

One oddity is that sometimes the Princess runs on quite badly, and sometimes she doesn't. The other thing I've noticed is that sometimes she's reluctant to keep running once started and sometimes isn't. I think this is related to things like the coked up engine, and the dirty air filter but I simply haven't had the time to look into it further while I've been using the car.
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Re: Austin Morris Princess 2 - Living the Beige Life

Postby Vulgalour » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:34 pm

On my way home Friday night I got a bottle of Redex from the local Autosupplies place (where I still get trade discount), I wish I had my camera with me because I parked next to a GMC or Chevy Mystery Machine which sounded pretty awesome when it rumbled away. I was going to get some Wellseal for the rocker cover, but they hadn't got any in stock and I didn't have a massive amount of funds on me so it can wait for now.

Because of the way the carb is designed, we had to use a squirty bottle to get the Redex into the carb rather than pouring it in from the bottle. I've not used Redex before, but my brother has so he was in charge of the red stuff so I didn't waste any by being a noob.
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At first, not much was happening, but as we put more in the smoke started to appear.
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Eventually, we had some lovely thick black clouds of smoke combining with the bluish stuff and everything stank of Redex and whatever it had cleaned out of the engine.
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About half a bottle went in the carb out of necessity, the rest being put into the petrol tank. The difference in pick-up afterwards was noticeable and the running on seems to have gone away, time and use will tell on that particular score. That was going to be it for today, I hadn't planned to get stuck in on anything until tomorrow really, but my brother looked around and saw that he could improve my cooling and set about dismantling the front of the car and hoiking the radiator out. More signs of bodgery were evident with the overspray on the radiator.
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The noise I'd been hearing from the fan might not have been the bearings, when we removed it we got a better look at the blades. Either the shroud has become misshapen or something odd is going on here because there's a big gap one side and no gap the other and it's clearly been like this for a while. Looking at illustrations in the book, it looks like this is the original fan too, small and feeble though it is.
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From left to right, I have a Rover K series fan, a Lexus LS400 fan and now the original Princess fan.
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After checking measurements for which would fit best we went with the Rover item which is nearly new and known to be good. Some brackets had to be fabricated to hold the new fan in its housing on the Princess radiator. Eventually, I hope to get these brackets remade neatly in stainless steel or similar. We also had to notch the plastic shroud to make the bolt holes line up, but that was a quick job.
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Once fitted, the overhang was to the bottom of the radiator so it didn't foul the bonnet.
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One of the original hose clips was a bit worn out, so the only expense for this job turned out to be a shiny new jubilee clip.
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Before final fit, the wiring was checked and the fan checked. Once happy all was present and correct, the radiator with new fan was dropped back in, wired up properly and the car fired up. Happily, the fan kicked in as normal and went off again when the engine was cooled, much faster than the original could manage. The gap between engine and radiator is now filled with fan and cooling is much improved. Best of all, it doesn't look bodgey and will look even smarter when new brackets are fabricated and I've finished updating and tidying the engine bay.
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After having done this job, it does remind me that I'd like to find a way to fit the distributor in a different place, ideally on the end of the block above the gearbox where there's all that lovely space. I need to do some research to find out if this is at all feasible as I imagine it would improve damp starts as the distributor would no longer be in the way of the moisture. We shall see.
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Re: Austin Morris Princess 2 - Living the Beige Life

Postby Spottedlaurel » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:55 am

Interesting read there, I haven't properly caught up with your exploits with it over on the other place. I'm not particularly mechanically gifted, but do enjoy the process of working through little things on something new and getting it more useable.

Surprised that it's only a 4-speed, when Maxis and Allegros with the bigger engines had five. I'd have thought they'd use that 'box.
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Re: Austin Morris Princess 2 - Living the Beige Life

Postby Vulgalour » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:55 pm

The gearbox on mine is one of the things I really need to fettle with, it's like changing gear in a pudding bowl full of spanners. I can do it, but there's definitely a knack to it and I'm sure at least one thing is worn.

___

I'm not in the finest of moods this evening and it's not just because of my twisted/sprained/otherwise fubarred knee (I swear, my body is actually made of cornflakes) but because of my parents' neighbour. Today, I went to visit the folks to drop some stuff off and get Dad to decypher the electric window motors I bagged recently and to put the working light cluster on I had also baggified. Was out in the back garden nattering with Dad and heard the neighbour come back, shortly followed by a horrible thud and the sight of the Princess lurching down the drive.

Suffice to say, I used some choice language. The neighbour was mortified and I was so furious I was just shouting all manner of horrible things, Mum cooled it all down by taking me indoors with the promise of a cup of tea, and it worked. A little later when I'd cooled down and stopped stomping about we actually discussed things like rational people and decided both cars could be repaired for less than the cost of excess on the insurance and that the neighbour would pay. Had my parents' neighbour been a knob, a gentleman's agreement would not have been reached, but he's actually a really decent fellah and knows precisely how much the Princess means to me, and has even helped with repairs and fettling. I cooled down a lot when I realised it was me being the arse, not him, and that it was a bit unfair of me.

So, what happened? Well, I'd parked in a different place to usual leaving enough space for him to get his Corsa B down the drive without having to get me to move the car. I have this knack of blocking him in or out when I visit my parents as the drive is a shared entrance. Unfortunately, he was paying so much attention to the side that his wife's garden was that he didn't realise how close he was to the Princess until much too late.

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The drive is on an incline until you get to the bottom, which, combined with the weight of my car, meant she moved a lot more than the low speed of the impact would normally create. He can't have been going more than a single figure speed, I doubt it even registered on his clocks. First thing to do was check my boot opened and closed okay, which it did.
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Next, have a look at what damage has actually been caused. Inside, it's no worse really than when I reversed into the house that time, bumping the other side.
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The light cluster on his Corsa was smashed by the swage line on the Princess, his bumper leaving a black mark further down the corner. My bumper has bent his rear valance and broken the trim clips for his bumper and arch trim and possibly bent his floor pan. I also broke one of his bulbs.
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Difficult to photograph, but this side gained a large shallow dent which, after I'd assessed everything, popped out almost completely with the slightest lean of the hand. When I get the bumper off this should pop out completely with relative ease.
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It's given me some work to do. Yes, I could book it in at a body shop but I think it would be cheaper and more useful if I get a set of dollies and repair it myself. One should always see an adversity as an opportunity if at all possible, and getting some useful tools out of an accident would be a favourable option for me. This is not going to be an easy repair, it's a very complicated area of the car in terms of curves so it's likely I'll have to use a little bit of filler to get things really smooth here. I have done a similar sized repair with some bits of shaped wood and a ball peen hammer years ago on a Ford Sierra, I'll have to see if I can remember how I went about it when I tackle it.
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It wasn't a complete wash out today, Dad managed to help me decypher the electric window motors so we know how to plumb those in. Unfortunately, one of the switches is broken so I'll be taking that apart to see if I can fix it. We couldn't test the motors, but I have no reason to believe they won't work. The dodgy light cluster has been replaced and now my lights work properly, though I do need to clean it up and swap the good lenses over.

Tomorrow, I'll make a start making this corner weatherproof at least, a lot of the paint has flaked off and when I tried to remove the loose bit of pinstripe tape, it lifted most of the run and some of the crappy respray so I now have a decidedly patchwork thing going on. Got to look worse before it looks better I suppose, now just to decide what colour I'll go with.
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